I hate online dating

Discussion in 'Dating Again After the Loss of a Spouse/Partner' started by Kata, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. Kata

    Kata Active Member

    Thanks for the supportive reply Paul. I’m glad to hear you voice your take on the two guys I just dealt with. It concisely explains why they were no good for me. I can see it so clearly in hindsight but get hindered in the moment by unrealistic expectations and associated emotions.

    I decided to move to Rochester because I have two good friends there (no close friends in CT). I lived there for 7 years a while back. . Unemployment was high, there wasn’t a thriving city center. When I first talked to my agent, I jokingly said “well I’ve lived here before so I know it’s kinda the opposite of charming. It’s not going to win any best places to live awards”. And then he told me one mag did have it on their list. Another big reason to move is the Eastman School. I’d be living near a premiere music school, which means easy access to great violin teachers, lots of choices to perform and see great performances by great players. It will be a rediscovery of something I love dearly.

    I’d love to tell you how the changes are going. It’s nice to be able to share and know someone is listening and sharing insights. Thanks!
  2. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    This sounds like an adveture so please do up dates. I am exited for you. From time to time I would want out of s
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  3. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    Seattle but I thought at least a community college. Some connection to culture.

    This has become a community of sorts. A Nam Vet in Maine, a gal in Mississippi, North Carolina and a long time friend in NM. A gal I like here and all the attraction for but both timid on making big steps. She wants an Ocean trip for a few days. That I am looking forward to and she has a dog that loves the beach. Part of that trip will be collecting driftwood for the Gal in Sip or Mississippi as they say. She is married and we made sure this our writing is plutonic. She lost her dad.

    My take is friends more the better. A workmate just reached out and now is in India embracing a Sikh life and all in. I am excited to talk with him. A gal I knew in HS just reached out and a dog walks with fifty years to catch up on. Crushing was her report of her sister now passed and a terrific friend we knew in common. She has done escort duty for a deceased husband. I hate losing people no matter any philosophical I care so much. That is the mind and not the heart.

    A gal I wrote to here from NY just checked in.

    We are slowly and really just crawling to build a new life but never forgetting the old. We cherish our partners.

    Yes, tell me all. A musician, agent.? Love it.
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  4. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member


    A small world. I had dinner with a friend and a gal from Rochester. She did say a very good music city. Services are OK. Yes, pockets of decay and economic times but some optimism mixed in.
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  5. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member


    How are you?
  6. Kata

    Kata Active Member

    Just OK. I had to take a break from one of my best friends because she has been trying to convince me that I’m too cheerful when I talk to her and that I’m about to have a nervous breakdown. Also she regularly gave me advice on other subjects under protest.

    I thought I’d feel better after the break but it wasn’t a big relief. I’m sad we can’t talk anymore, not sure if it’s going to be permanent. All I know is that standing up to her was exhausting.

    On the bright side started taking online yoga classes with my favorite teacher. First night in a long time that I got a full night’s sleep.

  7. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member


    First, so glad you are doing the yoga class and have a teacher the is right for you. I have Hiedi that is perfect and I love dearly. I have so much confidence in her. She is dedicated to and knowledgeable about better living using Vidic wisdom. I needed the class in-person to follow to be able to participate. That is a focus issue and a tech issue for me. Prior to COVID classes three times a week. So many benefits from an hour of well-spent time. The short story is missing that and have to adjust to the online format. The benefits are so many. Working on strength, flex ability, stamina is terrific but the over sense of well being actually works and is substance-free well being. Happy you found a way to still have that experience.

    To lose a friend is hard. I value people in my life. Each person is unique and adds to my life in unique ways. I am unclear why this impasse exists. I would think cheerfulness is of good quality. I have friends that are very opinionated and will want me to follow their advice. I think getting a point os view is great but in the end, life choices have to our own. Ones that we can handle and feel right about. Then again some observations may have merit and information we need that others find challenging. A grief symptom is over talking. I was glad I was tolerated but eventually had adjust and listen. Sometimes I am the one that needs to more tolerant. Then there are people so intent that we think just as they do. Overbearing and exasperating. So many personalities and pitfalls in relationships. I know some people get too much friction and have a falling out but over time the issue is less and they want that friendship again. I think tp a friend may offer criticism and we have to evaluate is it accurate information. If true change and grow. I have no idea about your situation. I am guilty of dispensing advice all well-intended but really useless to that person. Then perhaps helpful but they have to agree. We are in the people business and that is not always smooth sailing.

    I have good days and then seriously not. Way to moody and in the high low condition. Emotionally often all over. Some people are in the middlemost of the time and are grounded. I admire that quality and would prefer to have that ability more frequently. This amusing thing happened. I went to the mailbox and the city of Seattle sent a notice. The good news people with oil heat will have this new tax-deferred due to COVID. I not sp good news I had no idea the tax existed. This can get political. Government using tax or money to influence behavior. The sin taxes on cigarettes or to much sugar so a tax on soda. In this case, heating oil and global warming. Some people get irate over being mandated. I would guess most wear a seat belt or are very conscious over drunk driving or the helmet law for motorcycles. Change is forced upon us and we are reluctant to accept this change. Most new rules are OK. I hate flying because of the security hassles but get those are necessary. This heating oil tax is an expensive and structural rule. A fairly mild prod for better air and global warming. The simple solution is to quit smoking and use that unhealthful habit to pay this new tax.

    Kata, we all want love in our life. You are seeking that. The reward of what that can be so much. Someone to love and have a life with. A woman I care for is in my life. She has qualities that I dearly love. I think no matter who that person is. There will be adjustments the relationship will require. I would like to think that with enough seriousness and really great communication the obstacles can be less. Those warm feelings will find a way to compromise. That we are enough that and our more unchangeable selves are accepted. But we care enough to make the effort give up or just do what the relationship needs. That selfishness gives way to our chosen happiness is more important. My chosen has mental health issues and regretfully I do as well. The reason I care for her has good reasons. The obstacles perhaps more challenging and perhaps not resolvable but I would try. Then there are some core mental health issues that if repairable this relationship is credible. I may well be reaching for something I am ill-equipped to ask for. I just don't have these answers. Then if not is the answer to accept a life that is OK and livable just minus a quality I want so much. I am just stunned over how can I love her but those feelings are overwhelming.

    I think these wants are mutual. Perhaps the structural issue are not resolvable. I try to be as honest as possible. I may just be a person that those feeling are too much to handle. Then just accept a more subdued but unfulfilled life. Some people just get a cat, watch jeopardy, and look forward to a few hobbies. That is a life and nothing is wrong with that. I am motivated to try, doubtful o success, the means or remedy is not apparent. This may be a to soon issue. The opportunity presented. Perhaps there is away. Either way, information has been provided. Take these insecurities and fears and deal with them. The alternative is to build a life that is rewarding but minus the emotions that a romantic relationship offers.

    I think just stuck. I will try my best. Find a way if possible then accept I was reaching for too much. Just be mindful to not cause harm in the process. She is in a place that forming a new relationship is not possible. I am thinking to give it a year, I consider harm to be in the way of relationships that serve her better. I have had this conversation. So a supportive friendship exists. Be honest. Add and not subtract. Hope for the best. Let time with a ton of work to find away. Not easy to have one's faults so reveled.

    You will move. Do your meetups. Be open to love and companionship. Continue to grow and be in life. Should you choose you can report your success in whatever endeavor and feel free to express the obstacles. I don't mind poaching a good idea or learning from a broken attempt. There may people that never made a mistake but I don't know any. Just how big and what was learned the hard way.

    Thanks for the interaction and for sharing your life.

    Paul M.
  8. Kata

    Kata Active Member

    So glad to read your quick reply. Interesting thoughts. Reminds of one of my ex-boyfriends that said “I’d marry you but we both have depression”. He meant he “would have” because at the time we were both happily married.

    I’m still feeling down about losing my friend, and I feel a tug towards depression. Feeling of shutting down and shutting out the world. Fortunately I’ve learned how to realize when it’s happening and I do the opposite of what the depression wants to do. Reaching out to friends has a huge impact if I’m feeling low, so I talk to all my good friends. I’ll be reaching out to them every day until I’m not feeling that depression down. It’s just thoughts, not all the time, and no change in my ability to act. This is when I have to keep it at bay, because if I let it pull me down and down I’ll be in a place where it’s really hard to come out of.

    I understand my difficult friend giving unasked for advice. I sometimes slip. If I do it by accident I apologize.

    Im signing up for an online class about relationships. It’s such a timely subject for me so looking forward to it.

    Thanks as always for sharing and your support
  9. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member


    The online class seems a good idea. As you have identified our moods and sense of well being are tied to people in our lives. You are a music person and that is terrific. Music I think is the language of emotions. So much of popular music is about romance. That music has well-known themes. Adell has made a career in those themes. The same with Country Western, that one I only briefly spend time with. The themes are the same concerning Romantic Love. When new and fresh, full of the promise we are on top of the world. When gone or some obstacles become to difficult to navigate. We are despondent and experiencing the other extreme.

    The promise and reward I get. The challenges I also get. The ratios I question. Those are how much dependence to independence.? The capacity to give in relation to receiving. Fairly content in my own realm and my partner's happiness are important. Complementary and ease of being together. The question are we a basket full of needs or a basket of some needs but mostly well-navigaed life skills.

    My marriage ended in Death. I am reeling in that loss. In that is the gratitude for what was given. Some of that loss are a simple division of labor things. I was good at bills, car repair, taxes, finance, fetching things from a tall shelf, spider removal. She had a gift for introducing the new, tolerance, and love of life. The tangibles we now do for our selves. I learn to cook. The intangibles are so unique and not so easy to replace. Long term relationships seem about companionship and admiration of our partner.

    Heather's life ended due to infidelity. A long painful process of deceit, lying, selfishness, and very damaging anger. A laundry list of unworthiness and crushing self-esteem. If both parties are financially secure then fine. Treat relationships like underwear. Her ex had a serial style. A new woman was like a new car. When the new car smell wore off just get a new one. I just question the, "feeling". Security from my point of view takes time to achieve. Too many failed to chase the feeling and a change of heart. That seems more about fix me minus responsibility.

    I think it's good you push the pause button and take a class. I am seeing to much need in myself. But I think like a doctor and their oath. Do no harm has a moral ring of truth. I talk with people and in the end, the stop signs are so obvious. Personally, the easy ones are addictions. Alcohol dependency, gambling, abusive anger, lack of income or huge debt, impulse control. few if any friends. sexual addiction, the attention that becomes controlling are all large-stop signs. Conventional wisdom is to take time time to build our selves. I owe so much to Heather as she was there at my lowest point. Those first several months from Kay's passing were the most devastating and unsurvivable period in my life. She called each day to check-in. During her relationship disintegration, I was in her corner and advocated for her. I am also in her debt for revealing some insecurities that are not relationship worthy. I think fortunate it was she as we care for each other a great deal. The more I know her the more there is to love. Then too are the obstacles. If a Las Vegas oddsmaker long odds but do no harm is central.

    Kata I am curious a bit about you. The qualities you bring and those you seek? A happy married life and why it was happy? Those are very personal questions. Tina Turner has the take that love is a second-hand emotion. Then Bette Midler singing, The Rose. A heart so afraid of dying never learns to live. Then I am a Warren Buffet fan and he has a humorous homily that the punch line is, " Ask the right question". You have been on this earth for a time. You have seen relationships that ended and ones that stayed but not all that happy. Then the ones we all would want. Those universally have humor, emotional stability, compatibility, honesty, generosity, and great communication with self-knowledge. I would add a good work ethic, tolerance, compromise. selfless giving but more a genuine we love our persons well being. Would you add to this list?

    Then the question if not romantic love. What does a full-filled life look like?

    Very personal questions. Health is good. Financial worry maybe not perfect but manageable. Emotional well being, Hobbies, Growth, and really good friends. My worst and so apparent from Kay's passing is dealing with solitude.

    We are all in the same boat. Some a little better than others.

    Share what is comfortable.
  10. Kata

    Kata Active Member

    Hi Paul. Great questions.

    About fulfillment
    I can be content doing all sorts of things. For now it’s coloring mandalas. I’m hoping to get back outside gardening but I’m still not sleeping well enough to be up to it. I have a bucket list that I’ll start dipping into next year. That’s the best I can do for now. Letting fulfillment come by showing up for life. Meeting a romantic partner would be great, but it’s not a must. I know what I don’t want in a relationship. My choices in previous boyfriends showed my weaknesses: preconceived notions of romance, difficulty in recognizing when I was being mistreated, wanting to please at the expense of my own self worth. I broke the pattern by marrying my best friend. He didn’t romanticize. He loved me for real, so that let me love him for real. I never really saw the others for who they were, and without realizing it was trying to mold myself into something I wasn’t. I was needy with the others, always worrying about how I wasn’t good enough and that’s why they ended things. Thank god they did. Without them, I could be the best version of myself. And thank god I still had enough self esteem left to realize that my husband was the only boyfriend who accepted me unconditionally. That was the best relationship decision I’ve ever made. Our connection was emotionally and intellectually as deep as I’ve ever experienced.

    There were so many things I admired about him: emotional honesty (when he was sad about dying, he cried. That was every day from prognosis to the end) common interests that made vacations really satisfying. Combo of fun and mind expansion.

    I miss his brilliance. I’m bright but have attention deficit so my mind is a sieve. He was my memory. Without him the world is more stressful. I have to work extra hard now to remember things. Workarounds that are quite familiar, but challenging..I’m like an ocd person without neuroses..I need to check and recheck everything. He was worried for me when his time was running out because he was afraid I’d leave the stove on or forget to lock doors. The most I could do to ease his mind quickly was to buy auto shut off appliances, including one for the stove, so at least he knew I couldn’t burn the house down.

    What I like in myself are many of the things I liked in him. Kindness, compassion, generosity, a love of languages and travel to where they spoke it. A love of French especially. Appreciation of beauty in all things: nature, art, music, architecture, food, and especially each other. Open mindedness with a thirst for knowledge. Determination to achieve. Joking around, playing with words. We had a list of nicknames for our cats full of inside jokes and puns.

    We had different goals. For fun, I wanted to play violin and sing well, and have a group of friends to hang out with. For career, I got the education I needed to be able to pull my weight financially. He kept advancing his scientific research, working on artistic drawing, and delving into new areas of interest with a meticulous passion.

    Shortly after he died, many of his male friends commented on how they envied his ability to do anything he set his mind to. That guy competition thing, I guess. Intellectually, he excelled far beyond what I was capable of. Far beyond what most people are capable of. But he never made anyone feel beneath him. Friends and colleagues remembered him giving them a leg up. He had a talent for explaining complicated things in easy to understand ways, and kept his students entertained and engaged. Great sense of humor. I like to joke around, but he could’ve done improv..lightning fast wit.

    About differences
    I have a good friend who got married around the same time as my husband and I. He and his wife have never argued. I think that’s weird, but to each his own. I want to be with someone that argues once in a while. If no one’s protesting about anything I’d be marrying my clone, or someone who has no unwavering opinions. I think there should be things that annoy us about each other. Little things, not like “I’m a racist and you’re not” level. My husband got annoyed with my ADD. He’d read me crossword clues and sometimes I’d spit the answer out before he finished reading the clue (The one thing I was better at than him). But if he read the clue and more than a few seconds went by, I’d ask him to say it again. He couldn’t believe it “I just read it to you!” He couldn’t grasp the fact that someone could be that smart and have such a bad memory. For me, I hated when he cursed at his computer or smartphone for not cooperating. To spare myself from the tantrum, I’d go into another room and slam the door. I made my living in high tech, and could troubleshoot all day with no problem. I kinda liked the challenge.


    The online dating stress bomb did get me to thinking about what I want..from a relationship or life in general. I don’t want to be like either of the guys I “online dated”. They both had scripted their lives. As if life was a book and they presumed they could control everything about it. Marriage, living together, where we’d live...I realize that they were asking a me, person they hardly knew, to decide whether or not to be in their book.

    I think it’s human nature to comfort oneself by prognosticating one’s future, but in retrospect I realize I don’t need to decide about the future. Because I don’t have that much control over it. It’s a ridiculous idea to follow a script for something as unpredictable as life. If I can remember that the pages write themselves as we go along, I can be free from an imaginary box of my own making. I guess I’m thinking more play it by ear life planning would serve me best. Romance...no clue what I want yet.

    By the way, my soul soothing song is “The Secret of Life”. James Taylor. Especially helpful during caregiving.

    Thanks so much for listening and sharing.
  11. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member


    I did listen to the" Secrete of life". The message is perspective. We are here for a short time. Life has both a ton of misery and strife. Then so much joy. Live in the present. I did take a few moments to read his life's arch. I think bewilderment comes to mind. A sensitive mild soul had times of so much of the despair of our human experience. A miracle to still be living. His music is 2: Am, a hot cup of tea, maybe a cat on the lap, and reflecting on what actually matters. Good, I think a later life that has contentment.

    Interesting you mentioned mandalas. I have seen the Tibetan Monks create those. Intricate and colorful. Then to let them dissolve away as a gesture to impermanence. Are you coloring as in crayons or paints? Freehand or template? I was thinking of a Didgeridoo for the low harmonic resonance frequency. A fellow member here is into shamanism and drumming. Yoga has been around for a while. Sound Baths and singing bowls are an experience. Our culture has so much speed. I think being grounded and living a harmonious life Would attract like into our lives. You mentioned sleep. For people of grief that is often sited as hard to come bye. Any mental health discussion will mention sleep as an area to improve. Again our culture tends to turn the amps up all the time. Gardening seems as grounded as we can get. Some people walk barefoot over the earth to align polarity.

    Your life with your husband had so many great qualities. That was a pleasure to read. All the ingredients were there. Compassion, kindness, compatibility but differences that complement, intellectual curiosity, love of the aesthetic, admiration, a work ethic, and ambition. Humor, humility. I was amused by your annoyances with your husband. Some annoyances like my snoring were just hard to live with. Now I use a sleep apnea machine. She from a big family would tend to cook volumes not great for a diabetic. I am early and she late. That met late TV. She saved everything that included food that becomes science projects in the frig. Those are more problem solving and not realizing what a root cause may not be understood. Then and I ask if you agree are the ones we have clashed with. Those differences we struggled with are the same reasons we loved them. I am thinking of time. I would unravel over being on time. She could get lost in something and be so absorbed that four hours magically disappeared. I, fortunately, heard thousands of stories from her SF days of friends perplexed over that issue. Because she found life interesting and easily distracted is the same reason I liked her so much.

    Our thread began over dating sites. You made a comment about, "preconceived notions of romance, difficulty in recognizing when I was being mistreated, wanting to please at the expense of my own self-worth. " I wonder do we fall in love with love or the person? The feeling is everything and perplexed when not echoed in the exact same way. Dating sites I had a few conclusions over. Your observation seems correct. A perceptive love that was built well before we ever came along. Chemistry is associated with sex. That is related to a deeper connection of intimacy. Then the other chemistry like an intellectual. Then a third I called emotional chemistry. Perhaps the most important. I was frustrated by the process and would not like to repeat it. Do I like the person I am in the company of a woman? I love meeting people and engaging. I did see a number of people that met online were seeing one another for a year or more. I think about 20%. Just being a hermit not likely to meet many people. Living true to self-life seems good. As you say as unpredictable as life is. What will be will be?

    Loved our chats. Time for a walk. I am liking this Jazz/blues NPR blend radio.

    Paul M.
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  12. Laureleyes

    Laureleyes Member

    Hi Kata,
    I could not even get through reading your post without tears. Crying because I have the same apprehension and fear about the future.
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  13. Laureleyes

    Laureleyes Member

    Hello Paul and glego and Kata,
    Brand new here. Just read through all the posts on this thread and wanted to say that it has already made a difference in my morning, which began way too early, as I cannot sleep for too long at a time. Just the validation of knowing others have the same questions and insights is helping me to remember that I am not alone.
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  14. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    Welcome, Laureleyes,

    I am amazed you read to the end. But Glad our commiserating has meaning for you. The sleep issue is common and all the tears. We are in this building from loss. I am always curious as to how people find their way here? Our site creator and benefactor will be pleased to know her efforts are making a difference for each new person.

    We do our best to hold each other up. Glad you are here!!!

    Paul M.
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  15. Laureleyes

    Laureleyes Member

    Thank you Paul.
    I'm 67 and I don't feel like there's ever going to be a time when I will feel better than the horrible way that I feel now. Everywhere that I look seems entirely dark and hopeless. It's 2:30 a.m. and I am sleepless. I can't stand it anymore. First my husband of 30 years left me and then my partner of 15 years died on June 1st 2020. He had end stage prostate cancer and caught covid-19 and died 7 days after symptoms began. waiting for him to walk in the door.
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  16. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member


    This is the worst time of our lives. If I think back to week one and now, two years. Everything was beyond misery and all I can possibly say we endure it. Obsessional thinking. weeping no end, acute loneliness, our person is all we think about,
    maybe something needs doing. Good luck with that as we have zero drive, faculty, focus, or will to do anything. There is a psychological term called, "agency". I am guessing means power or engagement to influence our lives. Add COVID and having access to just being in the world is astonishingly limited. Everything is more difficult and we are already limited. You mentioned Leo already so ill and COVID piles on top of all that. When Kay was doing Chemo and so sick I dreaded coming home with a cold.

    You are a couple of months in. That is extremely raw. I am glad you are seeing a therapist. Building a support group. I am still doing that. Sometimes just a friendly exchange in the grocery store or stranger in the park was all that was available. I began with rec. center yoga class. Went to three a week. Then a whole series of activities was presented just weeks prior to the virus outbreak.

    I think our brain just got stretched beyond our limits. That is time and healing. So any form of diversion or better allows the intolerable to become incrementally better. The smallest things are something during this time. I did some dog sitting for a friend for three months. The dog was soft and lovable and liked being in my bed. She needed walking and that was going out. I met other dog people and neighbors I had not ever known. That led to small dog dental issues and talking all things dog-related. A small thing came unexpectedly and is a sense of better we need so desperately. A few pen pals from here. A FB name popped up a guy I did track with in HS. A couple of messages and we exchanged phone numbers a chat once a week of an hour or two. I will send out Christmas cards this year. Compared to our hours with our partner and our age being retired. a good deal is absent. Better means different things to people. I just don't care any better no matter how small is incrementally more. As we allow our traumatized brains to heal.

    Yesterday was a good day. I had the game on and cleaned the trunk all day with a host of chores. These spurts of energy are here and there. I was busy, a few people texted, a ton of work and so tired. Tired enough to get eight hours of sleep. That is a staller day plus I cooked up some halibut with a good salad. I actually do think fish protein does aid mental processing. One grief book solidly recommended exercise. I am a believer in that. Not much a few miles a day walking. That few hours of endorphins were such a relief from our horrible state. Any form of better! I overdid it and paid for that but getting some just 30 minutes is better.

    We are both 1953 series people. So most cultural influences we would know. A long time since JFK died but I remember like yesterday. Sleep I tried many things. Herbal tea or a lot stronger. Some pot from time to time. Some sleep supplements but usually a dazed mind the next day. There was a long time that sleep was posable.

    I know this is horrible. You are welcome to chat. My comfort shoe store is going out of business. Another COVID victim. They are having a sale. I have diabetic feet so kind of a big deal. Just another something to navigate.

    Are you in the city?

    Be well or as well as we can be.

    Paul M.
  17. Kata

    Kata Active Member

    Laureleyes, when you mentioned reading all the threads here, it reminded me of when I started posting not too long ago. I read all the recent posts in all categories of interest. I just reread this category again. So glad you could relate to them.

    One of the things I’ve learned is, that on top of the crying and not sleeping or eating and generally feeling like crap, I was judging myself and feeling fearful, like I was going to get worse instead of better because I was too weak to survive. I still hear that voice, now whispering instead of shouting, that says « you’re ok now but any minute now you could restart a downward spiral that you’ll never recover from.” It really helps to tell myself that I can endure and it will get better. Because eventually, it does.

    I can’t think of anything worse than feeling pain that seems unbearable. You deserve kudos for just getting through each day. I hope your upswing comes soon. ‘
  18. Laureleyes

    Laureleyes Member

    Thank you so much Kata. I am getting a lot of support from all on this thread and I'm grateful that I found it. I've been hearing great things about Rochester lately. A friend is looking at moving there also. I hope that you will find it to be a special place for you too! Talk soon!
    Kata likes this.
  19. Laureleyes

    Laureleyes Member

    No, not in the city. Eastern end of Long Island, which juts out from NYC for about 120 miles and ends at the Atlantic. I'm on the North Fork. Wineries galore and tourism almost year round.
    By the way, I lived in Seattle and for a short time in Enumclaw, WA in the early 80's. Went to UW and also worked there. Loved it so much. Wanted to retire back there but now the kids and so far, one precious granddaughter are here in NY, so I stay close.
    Where are you in WA?
  20. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member


    Small world. I did spend some time trying to grasp your Long Island and NYC boundaries. As a west coast person, the Boroughs that makeup NYC have interesting histories that we experience in Movies but don't quite get how the parts make the whole. Especially the long histories of transitions. One amusing internet fact was Long Island becoming a separate state. Washington is a state but two places. Eastern and Western. From time to time the Eastern half wishes to separate and combine with Idaho. I took a year-long drive of the perimeter of the USA. Lived in Pensacola for a year. Some time in the midwest. Mostly I know the western states. I had a book titled These United States. A collection of short stories from well-known to lesser-known authors describing their region's identity. So your neck of the woods is fascinating for both the historical and the diversity of people in the present. Basically not boring and your location has scenic natural beauty.

    I live in Seattle. A place of change. Some of the iconic and comforting treasures give way to the new. Enumclaw and many small towns like it were working-class blue-collar resource-based communities. Still a gateway to Mount Rainier and public lands. We would visit relatives that worked for lumber companies. I will be visiting the Oregon Coast next month. That outing passes thru Astoria. The oldest city in the US west of the Mississippi. Named for your NY Jacob Astor. Also the winter layover for the Lewis and Clark expedition. Working towns now more tourist hospitality destinations.

    You are a grandparent. We are our age and for retirees staying close to family is a determining factor. I have a friend that finished his career. Signed up for two years in the peace corp in Panama. Took a motorcycle from here to the tip if Argentine. Then a tour of Morraco from Spain to Senegal. He just had wonder lust and did it. Now content spending time with his sons and a new granddaughter. We did our phases of life. The '20s was idealism, exploring, preparation for adulthood. The '30s were settling down and building competence. The '40s and '50s were acquiring, job advancement, supervision, and mentoring. Hopefully with a partner and always responsibility. The '60s for me anyway was looking out for aging parents and caretaking my life partner.

    This time was supposed to be enjoying the rewards. Deferred travel, hobbies, mainly choice with freedom. The minus our person is the hard part. My mother was a widow for thirty years. My sister does fine on her own and about twelve years since her partner passed from ALS. That was some very dedicated caretaking. We have crossed the major hills in life. Both my sister and Kay have such fond memories of the grandparents. So much of their wellbeing was derived from that relationship. So our health permitting and finances well managed. We have some years to fill.

    Without a doubt, the caretaking, dying, missing and bereavement is the hardest thing I have ever experienced. Maybe a dull dumb neutral with days that are actually livable. A fairly blank canvas of the future. I am not sure over it is the right idea. Healing, adjustment, infilling our lives seem about right.

    I hope you are managing a little better. How much time in Seattle and what memories of that time? The UW did you degree there?

    This site has been an education. I would never minimize anyone's experience of grief. I will cringe at times to some people's degree of difficulty. I think many heroic stories of how hard peopled cared for there person. One woman was here a short while over her dog passing. She knew most here are suffering bigger losses but still that pet was her world. She just wanted to express her loss.

    As you lived here you know these Indian summer fall days are like gold.

    Chat if you feel like it.

    Be well.

    Paul M.