*DAYTIME AND EVENING GENERAL GRIEF GROUPS AVAILABLE EVERY WEEK* CLICK HERE TO JOIN US!

5 Months today

Discussion in 'Loss of Spouse' started by Barry, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. ainie

    ainie Well-Known Member

    Happy Mother's Day to you too! So nice that your husband made Mother's Day a thing for you. That is sweet, he loved you. Now on the other hand Mike, if the kids weren't around and I suggested we go to a restaurant, would just say "you're not my mother" and go back to whatever he was doing. My kids on the other hand have always treated me like a queen if they were at home and later never fail to call and send me flowers. Your son certainly went the extra mile to make your day with making you breakfast!

    Life is such a mixed up mix isn't it. This grief is so confusing...I start to be happy or at least light hearted and then feel guilty and think "how can I be happy with Mike gone"....then another time I will feel so sad and alone and worried and then feel guilty and think "why should I be so unhappy when I have so many blessings". For now I am trying just to live one day at a time and to remember "no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should". One time I was in a class and the teacher had us wade into a river that was on the property...then she had us push our hand through the water against the flow; next she had us just hold our hand still and let the water flow around it; then she had us let our hand be pushed downstream by the water....she made the comparison of life being like a river. It is easiest when we go with the flow.

    Take care and have as good a day as possible!
     
  2. NYCBASSIST55

    NYCBASSIST55 Active Member

    My wife, Colleen died August 6, 2019. She had two kids when we got married in 1984 in Champaign Urbana. John and James are grown now with kids of their own.

    This is my first Mother’s Day without Colleen. I didn’t know it was going to be this tough but I look over at the box of ashes propped up on the left side of that antique bookcase she bought on eBay and start to cry.
     
  3. KVR

    KVR Active Member

    Hi there. I've been thinking a lot about the lesson with the teacher. the go with the flow lesson. Why is that difficult? In sitting meditation we learn to surrender, go with the flow, to release the ego. Still, life is filled with choices, decisions, action. We plan, we think about the future because that's part of what we do to survive. Following out intuition is part of going with the flow. Listening carefully to our bodies and our spirit to determine what is "ease" and what is "force" and what is "natural" and what is "Pushing" When you work out, pushing and force stretches muscles, builds strength. So there's that. A little push gets us out of our comfort zone. Still, we have to listen and honor the force of the river, so much greater than us, even when we are pretty good swimmers.

    Thanks for sharing honestly about Mike and his response to Mother's Day. Made me smile, your honesty, we are so real. I also forget what makes each of us different, unique, unless we share. Helps to appreciate the details that we deal with, that make us who we are.

    Happiness and guilt. I'm not sure why you might feel guilty or question how you could be happy with Mike gone. Mike would want you happy. We all want happiness for those we love. Do you think others would judge you, and say you are not grieving long enough?
     
  4. ainie

    ainie Well-Known Member

    Hello KVR. Good thoughts on the flow. Where does effort and push come in? I think maybe go with the river when it concerns what we have no control over and use our strength and wisdom to push when it is something we do have control over? Sort of the river says we need a job and an income....go with the flow and get a job. But we can choose which type of work and then push to gain the education/experience to get that particular job. Or in our grief...accept that hubby is gone (river) but choose to arrange things to make life alone easier (push). The real test is how do we sort out what we actually have control over. If I ever figure that out I'll write a book and become famous!

    Good questions about the feeling guilt too. Mike definitely wanted me to be happy since the day we met, And when he was sick he talked about how I should make a happy life after he was gone. So it's not wondering what he would want. I have come to not worry too much about what others think. I think I am judging myself. Loyalty was always a huge part of love for me...I still love Mike so much ... perhaps I feel disloyal when I start to feel better. Sort of he isn't better so it's not fair to him if I am. Not sure that makes sense.

    Hope you are having some better days. Hugs.
     
    RLC likes this.
  5. RLC

    RLC Well-Known Member

    Ainie,
    Hope you don’t mind if I jump in here. The guilt. I so get that. I have it all the time. Ron can’t get something fun so I shouldn’t, type of thing. I just purchased a new iPhone, I have so much guilt, I shouldn’t but I do. He wants me to get new things to move forward, I know this. We always got new phones together. My last iPhone was a birthday gift from him. So there’s that.
    I understand the loyalty the love, the how can I laugh or smile when he can’t.
    But I also use him as my inspiration to get out of bed each day. To make him proud, as he watches over me. I’m sure Mike is watching over you as well.
    I have my new phone, it’s set up and I’m using it, I love it and I know Ron is happy I got it.
    Take care, Robin ❤️
     
    ainie likes this.
  6. Cora1961

    Cora1961 Well-Known Member

    Hi Robin, how have u been? I hope better . I have been spending time with my daughter then when I come home I bring my oldest granddaughter with me, she is great company. Just to have someone at home is awesome. Still lonely as hell for my husband and this virus needs to get over with. It’s just depressing and stressful and then I am a stress eater so that doesn’t help. Haha oh well nothing else to do. Take care and be safe Cora
     
    RLC likes this.
  7. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    Cora 1961

    Great picture and cute kids. Yes, all is stressful!!
     
    Cora1961 likes this.
  8. RLC

    RLC Well-Known Member

    Ainie,
    Late yesterday I saw you relied to my post. I started to reply back but it got late and thankfully I copied what I started because it’s gone today.

    Ainie,
    Yes talking is good, and I agree the more people who join the better. Different points of view.
    When I read your post and feelings of guilt or disloyalty, it hit home. It felt good to know someone else has those feelings. A lot of people don’t understand the guilt feelings I’ve had. So unfounded, yet they happen. Food, house supplies etc, never a problem. Something for me, I have to ponder and think it through and even then it’s been hard. It’s great you feel a weight lifted, I think I do too, I did actually buy something for myself, that’s a start.
    Talking things through with people who understand, feels so good and right. This site has been good to me. Even more since this pandemic we’re living through. I’m alone a lot but I feel I have friends here that help me through.
     
    Cora1961 and ainie like this.
  9. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    Ainie and Robin,

    First Robin, so glad you mentioned how helpful the site is. Especially with lockdown but the specific nature of grief mainly loneliness.

    Guilt is a strange word. I get perhaps the regret over things that were not perfect in our marriages. The do-overs. I get somehow thinking we did not do enough when the sickness happened. The second-guessing of desitions made it the frenzy of the hospital. All we could have done differently. That second-guessing while so much was happening so fast.

    People have mentioned this type of guilt over deriving pleasure or happiness now. There was one restaurant pre 19 Kay and I went to a lot. Those places I can't go to. It would seem so difficult as the hours we as a couple spent there. The memories would come up and be too emotional. Yes, irrational but charged with we the couple. To raw. A side note the couple that owned the specific place has passed from COVID.

    These emotions are so complex.
     
  10. RLC

    RLC Well-Known Member

    Hi Cora,
    I’m jealous you have grandchildren. It’s great you get to bring your granddaughter to your house. I know when my Dad passed, my kids stayed with my Mom often. When I would pick them up she would cry, I always felt so bad. But I did a lot with her and had her over almost every night for dinner. I asked my siblings to invite her too but that never happened.
    Sunday will be 1 1/2 years, since that horrible night. But I didn’t think I could live a minute without Ron and here I am. Running the household on my own and doing most the yard work myself, I didn’t think I was capable of all this, somehow I’m muttling through. The loneliness is the big thing. My daughter comes by but not as much as she used to. I won’t see her today, but we have talked.
    I can’t help but think I’d feel better if I could see family or go to the store, run errands, keep my mind busy. This virus has gone on so long! I know the loneliness you speak of, it’s overwhelming for sure. I’m just the opposite, when I’m stressed I don’t eat, my daughter is the same. My son he’s a stress eater and he gained weight after Ron passed.
    Cora you take care too, thank you for reaching out.
    Robin ❤️
     
    Cora1961 likes this.
  11. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    Other side note on what happened to our posts? Not the end of the world just odd.

    On another thread was a conversation from KVR talked about survival. That our instincts will eventually kick in and get to another side of grief. Someone else commented that grief is a survival condition. I agree with both and that topic did come up in a counseling session I had some time back. Our bond though so personal is the bond that makes us go the extra mile when those we care for are in trouble. Those bonds are meant to be. All the sacrifice for whatever. Without those so powerful bonds. What would hold anything together?
     
  12. KVR

    KVR Active Member

    On a positive note, we are moving next week. Finally we can move, since being put on hold from COVID. Lots of mixed emotions. Leaving this space, to a new unbridled space, without my husband's memories will feel odd. Still, I am ready and curious. Any movement or change feels like it could only do good. I've read the posts on guilt and happiness after death. I do wonder if there is a gender thread here. I can't help think that, and because I'm a woman and I remember how my husband and I...well, there were "understandings" about how to spend money, what was "wise" (especially anything for kids, house, etc) but I do remember feeling strange, guilty, about spending money on myself. Interesting! And then now that he's gone, there is still this, choice. This decision on how to carry on. I wonder if women tend to sacrifice their own needs, for husband and family more? I wonder how a new found unsought freedom after the passing of a loved one can feel strangely guilty, when we loved being in a relationship, and yet there were gender dynamics?

    I ramble.

    I think this is a good time as any to raise awareness of patterns of thinking so that as we can move into our new, unsought out chapter in life, maybe embracing positive changes, and understand that it's okay. To grow and evolve and even feel better in some ways. You know, our spouse in some ways has the gift of freedom (spirit freedom!) and they don't have to grow old for example or even deal with this virus thing, so--maybe their freedom also is a gift for us, if we dare to take it.

    Just a thought.
     
    ainie likes this.
  13. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    KVR,

    Glad you're making positive changes. I think you are correct about gender. Some women have commented on roles. They were not up to entertaining or holding people up all the time. The putting on the all is well face when it is not. Other women and really myself. Suffering the missing and all of that but also is now deciding independently. I think women tend to see a much bigger picture. Men can play a few positions well but a woman can play many more.

    COVID is unknown in so many ways. The world will be crazy and contentious. I did see a photo display of this world minus pollution. Many have commented on seeing views minus pollution that they had not seen in years. Will this mark so dramatic paradigm shift. Not likely.
     
  14. RLC

    RLC Well-Known Member

    Paul,
    Guilt, it’s strange how it slips into our minds, yet so unnecessary. We never bought anything without the other one knowing, not like we’d get angry if something was purchased without the other knowing, it’s just how we were.
    I totally understand the feeling of going in a favorite restaurant now being difficult as one, when it was a place you frequented as a couple. I have many places like that. So difficult. It’s a shame the couple passed on from this virus. Sad!
    Regret, Ron passed so fast, yet I do have some. I didn’t jump up when he didn’t feel well, wish I had, I had no clue in 2 hours He would be gone. There was no reason to think it wasn’t just a stomach virus that would pass quickly. But yeah, I wish I got up to check on him immediately.
    I can understand thinking and rethinking of the care chosen at that time. That makes sense. Because there’s so much time to wonder and question.
     
  15. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    Robin,

    Your marriage was so tight. That ability to talk and converse on everything. When I read your description. I would think there is a couple on the same page. Enviable and refreshing to know achievable.
     
  16. Cora1961

    Cora1961 Well-Known Member

    Thank you. I hope you are doing well and be safe with this virus.
     
  17. RLC

    RLC Well-Known Member

    Thank you! Yes that is exactly Ron and I. Zero secrets, compatible in every way, we each knew on the night we met, this is who we will spend our life with. Even at the young ages of 16 and 19. In 11 days it’ll be 46 years since we first layed eyes on each other, right on the corner of where we bought our house. I miss him so very much.
    We were the perfect match and it’s definitely achievable. My sister told me after Ron passed, she was jealous of what we had. Maybe that’s why she treats me so terrible, jealousy. She hasn’t found her one and only, 2 divorces. She’s a therapist and she told me this is a long road to get through and said there is no time frame everyone is different. But she expected it would take me somewhere in the range of 4 or 5 years, knowing just how close Ron and I were. I’m making progress for sure. She didn’t say that to scare me but to let me know it could take a very long time.
    Billfromwa mentioned the Blake Shelton , Gwen Stefani song Nobody but you! Perfect, gave me goose bumps listening to it. You should listen to it. You had a wonderful marriage with Kay. As did many other people on here have wonderful marriages cut short. I recommend listening to this song.
    Do you ever wonder how Kay would be doing if it was you who passed? I wonder that often. I know Ron would be suffering similar to how I feel and know the house upkeep wouldn’t stress him like it does me. I’m certain he would close our shop like I did, but how would he be managing. I think he’d be watching a lot of movies. It’s just something I wonder.
    Take care!
     
    TJones likes this.
  18. ainie

    ainie Well-Known Member

    Hope the move goes smoothly and you like the new place. It is a good sign that you are feeling ready.

    Definitely gender difference in putting oneself first as I see it. The society we grew up in unintentionally taught us we were second class...others get the best piece of steak, others get things they need first, so many little things we just take for granted that say others first. I wouldn't want it to swing they other way too far and become selfish and self-centred but feeling as good as would be nice. I'm trying to remember who I am...what did my self as a little girl know I wanted. I figure if I'm forced so harshly into this new life I never wanted I'm going to try to make it as real and true as I can.

    I think this is an excellent time to examine our lives carefully. Definitely a time of reassessing what this life is about. I have learned so very much about myself during these months. I have sorted all our pictures...so many things I see differently now...some for the better, some with regret. And that's not a complaint... I'm amazed. It's like everything is clearer. I am sadder than I have ever been and yet feeling happy too. Mike loved me, took care of me and the kids, it was so, so awesome to be his wife. I won't let this suffering be in vain. Good stuff will come from it.

    This philosophic rambling may be out of step here but this is where grief has led me. Reassessing everything.
     
  19. paul tinker

    paul tinker Well-Known Member

    Robin.

    You said a lot, As I read you're living with Ron is the joint desition making and communication. Most marriage counseling will focus on communication. You and Ron had that to perfection The two heads are better than one. When I think about relationship it would come down to companionship. Problem-solving, collaborating, Her strengths made up for my deficiencies. Their presence and the ease of together. Her ways became my ways. All of those things then more. We trusted and admired our partner. On my own a typical male just the bare essentials. She made the house a home. Everything here is her choices less computers, TV, stereo, cars bought and maintained, taxes, money management. Those I tended to do.

    What we read here is the bond. That can be all relationships, spouse, sibling, child, friend, are all bonds that we find essential in some way. Even in my work life, someone moves on and I had the twinge of missing them. Just at the pharmacy, some employees moved on. I have that some missing a relationship.

    How would Kay be had the I been the one to go. I know in sickness she would have fought as hard as I did for her. She would have had the tools like plenty of friends for support. She was resilient and could handle herself. Money is not a concern and she had and could make it on very little. She would have hated being in the house alone. I did most of the nuts and bolts type of things. She would have floundered on those. What she excelled at and why I adored her so much was relationships. That is what she valued most. She remembered all birthdays, anniversaries. Took exceptional care about gifts and wrapping presents. She was the memory maker in taking pictures. She was exceeding loyal to all her relationships and often went the extra mile for those. I know her heart. She had a run of about ten treasured relationships gone to death. Each of those took a toll on her.

    She did fine fighting her battles most of the time. I got called in for car accidents, dealing with more analytical confrontations. I dealt with institutions more like insurance, IRS, broken things like furnaces, dishwashers. We as a couple just hung out so easily.

    If she was the one here. It would have been a loss on top of so many. Like we are rudderless and extremely disoriented. I would fear she would have gone into depression. She never would drown in a bottle or drugs but feeling numb and dead inside. That is what I would fear the most had she survived.

    I would guess Ron like you and how I am. All we think about is them 24/7 all the time. Outside life just stops. We live in that relationship. We find countless ways to preserve it. We will do that for however long. Life will require something and slowly we will be forced to respond. A friend needed a dog sitter sometimes for months. That dog needs all sorts of things like going for walks. That led to meeting neighbors and relating to other people. I was drug out of my obsession over Kay. All of her things I am taking great pains to do with as I would assume her approval.

    My sister and I talk once a week and that can be up to ten hours a phonecall. She did escort for her partner with ALS. That was extremely demanding and dozens of decisions had to be made. She was for me the blueprint for how to deal with Kay's decline. She is much more grounded and not as emotionally overwhelmed. Much more pragmatic but feels it all. Preserves memories and values people that loved her partner. She is much better with her own company. I am way over emotionally. Sometimes Pat will wonder if she is lacking in emotion. I will say no you are not you just get to the conclusion better. I rely on her groundedness a great deal.

    Sorry, Robin, this went on a bit. I hope I read you correctly and responded in a useful way. I really don't give a rats ass about psychology, co-dependence, or philosophy. My relationship with kay will be forever. Just life will force me to respond and my focus will have to live in the present.

    Glad you are here !!!

    Paul M. ( a box of rocks floundering just a little less as time goes by)
     
  20. RLC

    RLC Well-Known Member

    Paul
    I truly enjoyed reading about the bond you and Kay shared. Beautifully written. I see how much you miss her. Nice tribute to Kay and the both of you as a couple. You did respond in a way that answers my question. For some reason every once in a while I wonder how Ron would be managing. I’ve wondered if others think of that as well. There’s no question that he would be having the same pain I am feeling, every minute of every day. I kind of feel he wouldn’t know what to do with himself. There’s a good chance he would eat less healthy, he wouldn’t drink what many people turn to, but he would drink a lot of Mountain Dew. His favorite beverage, that I was weaning him off. I worry like you say about Kay, that he might fall into depression. We were each other’s best friend, my daughter became my biggest support and she would do the same for her Dad. I’m just not sure he would be as receptive as I’ve been. Possibly his ego might get in the way, I’m not sure. I do know my younger brother who is good to me and was close with Ron, would support Ron. It’s great you have such a close relationship with your sister, I’d love that with my sister but that will never happen, I have 2 brothers, one who stays in touch fairly regular the other one will help me if I call him. I rarely call, just not my nature, but I should. My brothers live close.
    I don’t know why I wonder how he would be doing, I actually know he’d be in the worst pain of his life, just like I have felt and you and so many others.
    You mention Kay would hate being in the house alone, and dealing with maintenance type issues. That’s where I struggle as well. I have to call for our furnace to be serviced, I’ve never made that call, ordering fuel. And today for example, my daughter and I built a new gate. Ron would be proud but certainly wouldn’t want us to be doing such things, and using his drill, circular saw etc. but we know how to use his tools and to be extra careful because we did everything together. We had a list of home projects we planned to start checking off our list once we retired. Would he still do those things without my input, I’m not sure. He could do them all, I can’t I’d have to hire someone.
    I payed all our bills, Ron took care of investments, insurance policies and the like, just like you did.
    Today at 11:34 pm, it will be 18 months since my wonderful husband was taken from me so quickly, and he lost his chance to retire and enjoy our plans of travel and living a more relaxed life. He was a very hard working man who provided so well for his family and took such great care of us. He deserved that. He was a respected business man, I have people tell me all the time how much they thought of him. Wonderful son, brother, and uncle. Devoted, loving and caring husband and Dad. He was/is the best as they come. Shouldn’t we all feel that about our, spouses, family members and friends we’ve lost. I think so. I think back to one week, two weeks, a month after Ron passed, I’m still hurting and missing him terribly, but I have come a long way.

    I love your analogy, box of rocks floundering, perfect!

    Writing such things as you’ve written and I’ve written today and everyone on here write, is so cathartic! I know I wrote a lot, but I can’t help it when it comes to Ron, the words pour out.

    Continue to take care, Kay would want that.

    Robin